Are Seed Oils Toxic to us?

minismallholding in StemSocial • 2 days ago

If you have any interest in health and nutrition you've probably come across talk about seed oils being bad for you. It's not a new discussion, but it's certainly become more prominent in recent years. Is it unwarranted fear mongering or is there research supporting the claims of these oils being toxic?

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Generally when people refer to "seed oils" they are talking about products that are usually labelled as "vegetable oil". Of course these aren't actually oils from vegetables. It's believed this label came into being because one of the first oils of this type to be marketed for human consumption was cottonseed oil, which was better known as lamp oil at the time and would probably be seen as something we shouldn't be eating. When people refer to seed oils they're usually taking about corn, cottonseed, canola, soybean, sunflower, safflower, rice bran and grapeseed oils. These are usually all highly processed oils.

There seem to be three main camps against seed oils; the majority say that it's just the 8 above mentioned highly processed and refined oils that are the problem and virgin, cold pressed oils are fine. Another camp says that all oils coming from plants are toxic while another camp says it's just the oils very high in Omega-6 fatty acids that are problematic.

Are Seed Oils Beneficial in Any Way?

A lot of the claims that seed oils are bad for us don't seem to be being made out of the blue. When you look into it a good amount of evidence is being cited. So recently I've been trying to find out what the evidence to the contrary is from those who advocate for vegetable oils as being beneficial for us. Frustratingly, most of the time these advocates don't really tell us anything other than that studies have found them to be beneficial, leaving me wondering in what way. When really pressed on how they are beneficial, the only answer they seem to have is that they have been shown to reduce cholesterol, which doesn't necessarily demonstrate a benefit, especially with questions being raised as to whether cholesterol is actually as bad as we've been led to believe it was all these years.

These are just a handful of articles which discuss the lack of evidence in studies of saturated fat consumption causing heart disease and how dietary recommendations should be or are starting to be changed:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9794145/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31841151/
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077

Interestingly, during my research into why seed oils are thought to be toxic for us I came across a mention of a study that found that carb consumption with saturated fats increased insulin resistance at a higher rate than carbs consumed with seed oils. So could this be seen as a benefit, despite the fact that insulin resistance still increased with seed oils, just not as rapidly as with saturated fats?

How might consuming seed oils be harmful?

Back to the argument on the side of seed oils being toxic; if we look at the argument that it's the extraction and refining process that is the biggest issue, why could that be a problem?

When an oil is extracted through traditional methods from seeds or fruits with high oil content the product is just pressed to force the oils out. The resulting oil is called virgin oil and is unadulterated with all the nutrients and vitamins it carries still intact. It will also have the flavour of the fruit or seed it comes from. However, if a seed doesn't contain much oil or if they want to extract more oil from the already pressed oils or fruits, then they have to employ high heat, higher pressures and add a solvent. This produces a sludgy looking oil which then has to be refined and cleaned to make it look nicer and to remove the solvent. This process removes the flavour and most of the nutrients and vitamins, which is why they might add vitamins back in.

Concerns with this form of processing is that traces of solvent might remain in the oil, the high heat and pressure could be causing higher peroxidation rates which aren't detectable through smell or taste like they would be with cold pressed oils. A question also arises as to whether some of the removed nutrients could help mitigate the damage from peroxidation products in our bodies?

So what is peroxidation?

Polyunsaturated fatty acids start to become unstable over time. This process occurs quicker once they've been released from their wholefood state. Heating increases that peroxidation process and with the high pressure, high heat and often chemical processing, further peroxidation occurs. It seems that it's the peroxidation end products that can cause harm in the body rather than the original oils themselves.

Most plant oils are high in Linolaic Acid (LA) which is an Omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid. Along with Omega-3 it's classed as an essential fatty acid because our bodies cannot produce it but it essential for certain body functions. However, if we have more than our body needs then it gets put in our fat stores which means it's hanging around in our bodies for longer. Does this mean it will continue to peroxidate in our bodies? Some believe so.

The Omega-6/Omega-3 imbalance issues

Then there is the belief that the issue is more to do with the imbalance in our bodies between Omega-6 and Omega-3 when we consume too much seed oil. The main function of Omega-6 is to cause inflammation when we get sick or injured in order to summon the immune system to that area for repairs. Omega-3 is the counter balance which stops the inflammation from spreading where it's not needed and brings down inflammation once healing is done. Both fatty acids use the same enzyme pathways for conversion for their respective uses and when Omega-6 levels are too high they will crowd Omega-3 out. For a long time many felt the solution to this was to up Omega-3 intake in order to try and balance the ratios out, but this is actually quite hard to do because most foods with Omega-3 also have Omega-6 in at the recommended or higher 6 ratios. Only some seafoods and fish have higher Omega-3 to 6 ratios. So more recently it's being recommended that the best way to balance out your Omega-3 to 6 ratios is by cutting out high Omega-6 foods, namely seed oils.

From testing done on people eating ancestral diets (that is original diets from their region without any outside influences) it seems they always got enough of both of the Omega fats from the natural foods they were eating, leading to the hypothesis that it is our consumption of the processed oils with high Omega-6 which is leading to our bad balance of these fats. As these populations eating the ancestral diets were also free of the chronic diseases that have become so common today, it could also indicate that it might be that we only require low levels of these fats for optimal health, which might be why some have come to the conclusion that any plant oil is too much unsaturated oil.

Concluding thoughts

I'm not inclined to believe that all plant oils are bad. After all, olive oil has been used for millennia in Mediterranean diets and is only recently we've seen a rise in chronic diseases. Admittedly olive oil is a mono-unsaturated fat rather than polyunsaturated, which means that it's a bit more stable and less prone to peroxidation. Cold pressed polyunsaturated oils haven't ever really been used to the same degree as olive oil has been, so we can't really say what their effects would be if they were used at these rates.

It's actually very hard to do proper scientific studies on the effects of diet, so we can never be truly sure if or how what we're eating is affecting us. Some studies done in the past have revealed a certain amount, but they cannot ethically be repeated today. I keep coming across mention of a heart health study which replaced saturated fats with polyunsaturated ones in the form of seed oils and they found that cancer rates increased with those consuming the seed oils. Unfortunately I don't have access to those studies myself, so I can't corroborate that. I do, however, believe that we've spent thousands, if not millions, of years eating whole, minimally processed foods and it's not a stretch to conclude that our bodies would struggle to adapt to eating something so highly processed and removed from its original form in just over 100 years.

Do you think the growing distrust of vegetable oils is justified?
I'll leave with this video for some more food for thought.

#health #life #food #teamuk

2 days ago in StemSocial by minismallholding

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reveurgam 2 days ago

There isn't one answer. Every oil is different. Some, like corn, have only Omega-6s. Given how common corn products are in many countries, this is a problem. Other oils have a significant amount of Omega-3s, such as flax, canola, soy and walnut. One thing that is certain: consuming the "good" oils is better than lard, tallow, shortening, butter and margarine, all of which are high in saturated fats, as well as cacao butter and solid oils like coconut and palm. Note that ruminant animals' fat naturally contains trans fat.

Sesame seed oil has also been around for thousands of years, and I'm willing to bet that there are more.

Let's keep in mind that olive oil is from the flesh, not the seeds, but peroxidation still impacts it, albeit not as quickly as walnut oil, for example. How should we classify coconut and other palm oils? Coconut oil comes from the flesh inside the shell and is typically extracted through heat, which causes it to separate from the "creme". I'm not sure what the traditional method is to get the creme from the flesh, but I believe the flesh is grated and pressed. Unfortunately, what I've seen for the saturated fat content of these herbaceous trees is that it's not good for health as a food, and the same is true of corn and safflower, and some of the others. Palm oils tend to be from the fruit, too, but I've never seen it processed nor do I know what part they come from. Palm kernel oil is worse than regular palm oil. Any oil that is solid or semi-solid at room temperature is high in saturated fats and bad for health, including butter and margarine.

One thing that's important to remember is that oils break down due to peroxidation, so it's important to not collect bottles of it and let them sit for months or years. Only buy what you need in reasonable quantities.

Processing oil with cold-extraction such as pressure is the ideal way to extract oil, as it does the least damage to the oil. Processing with heat results in the production of trans fat, which is why deep-frying in the same oil again and again is bad for health (think French fries, onion rings, donuts, etc), and those oils are labeled "refined".

Recently, my sister has become convinced that seed oils are bad (she is an idiot when it comes to health info and very vulnerable to being manipulated, sadly), and I heard her say that Canola is the worst and was created as an engine lubricant. That is not exactly true. Rapeseed oil has been used as an engine lubricant, where the high erucic acid doesn't matter, but Canola is a food-grade variant that is low in that acid and, thus, safe for the heart. Non-food rapeseed oils, called colza oils, are not in the same category as Canola and low-erucic-acid rapeseed oils. Canola is one of the best oils to consume, especially for high-heat cooking as it doesn't break down as readily and doesn't produce trans fats as easily, either. Olive oil is great except for high heat. Some other oils are also wonderful but break down quickly so it's best to buy small quantities to use rapidly. Oils with vitamin E in large quantities are less likely to produce trans fat when heated.

Some of the best oils are, in descending order of Omega-3s content: linseed/flaxseed, hemp, walnut, canola, soybean, mustard, olive, avocado and pumpkin. Other oils can also be included, such as kelp, algal, and Perilla. And, of course, there are several sea animals that have good oil in them, primarily prey fish like salmon. Eating predatory fish, even if it's got good oil in it, carries high risks because of the bio-accumulation of toxins like DDT, PCBs, PFAS and mercury, so avoid swordfish, marlin, grouper, tuna, shark, etc.

I wish you would've delved farther into the large amount of research that's available about seed oils. If you had, you would've been able to find the answers to your questions, and that would've helped your readers. To answer the question you had about whether or not increased insulin resistance could be beneficial, that is definitely bad. Insulin resistance comes about through a complex process involving lipids (fat) in the same cells where glycogens (sugars) are stored, taking up the space and thus requiring excess insulin to be produced so that the glycogens can get into the cells. That's grossly oversimplified, though.

Finally, on the YouTube channel "Nutrition Made Simple", Dr. Gil Carvalho looked at some research into different types of food frying materials and the research says that while you'll be healthier consuming the good oils, the best choice is to not consume oil often. I also recommend the channels "Viva Longevity!" and "Physionic".

In conclusion, some oils are not seed oils (coconut & olive); some oils are good for health because of relatively high levels of Omega-3s; and some oils also contain vitamin E, which seems to retard the breakdown of oil with heat into trans fats. Those which are solid at room temperature should be avoided, just like animal fats. If you can minimize the use of all of these substances, it's better for your health, but that means you'll need to avoid fried food at restaurants and bakeries, which are likely to have lots of trans fats.

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minismallholding 2 days ago

Just to quickly clarify what I said about insulin resistance, this was my question:

So could this be seen as a benefit, despite the fact that insulin resistance still increased with seed oils, just not as rapidly as with saturated fats?

Apologies if it wasn't very clear, but it seems the main conclusion was that the mixing of carb and fat consumption together caused insulin resistance in both cases, but it was more increased with saturated fat consumption. Insulin resistance is, of course, never a good thing.

I believe some oils are referred to as fruit oils rather than seed oils, olive and avocado for example. Perhaps this is why they are more mono-unsaturated fats rather than the polyunsaturated fats. This is why I listed the 8 in the second paragraph that are generally referred to as seed oils. I have to agree that it can be confusing to use this description, because then people will often take this to mean all oils from plants and as you say, they are all different in their composition.

I would also say that we are all different in how our bodies react to and metabolise different foods, which is why I try to gather as much information as I can and feel everyone should make their own decisions from there. I may not agree personally with their choices, but it's their choice in the end.

I wish you would've delved farther into the large amount of research that's available about seed oils. If you had, you would've been able to find the answers to your questions, and that would've helped your readers.

I struggled to find much that wasn't promoted by companies with a vested interest. Do you have any sources you could point me to? Part of my posting this was to see if any readers would have more information and sources they could point me towards. That's what I like about the community aspect here.

Processing with heat results in the production of trans fat, which is why deep-frying in the same oil again and again is bad for health

I'm glad you brought this up. I did come across something about how trans fats can occur with the oils, but couldn't find much more on it other than it being when they process the oil to make it solid, like they did with Crisco back in the day (I believe this process is now banned for the most part). I was planning to delve into that further for another post. I've also come across mention of them developing as the oil peroxidates in the body after consumption, but haven't found anything to back that up and I don't like to make statements that can't be backed up. It's hard enough to know for sure what is happening in the body as things are metabolised anyway and it will be different for all of us.

high in saturated fats and bad for health

I'm starting to wonder if there is nuance here again. I gather even the FDA has dropped its recommended cap on them. Is it more dependent on how our bodies are metabolising them and inflammation levels? You have some people with a genetic predisposition to producing cholesterol at a higher rate than average, for example. I am seeing the suggestion more often that it's the combining of high fat and high carbohydrate that seems to be the most problematic for all chronic disease, yet when people consume on the low fat or low carb ends of the spectrum (wholefood not ultra processed that is) they both have good outcomes despite the opposite approaches. What are your thoughts on this?

Ultimately I think we reach a similar conclusion of everything in moderation.

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micheal87 2 days ago

I have come to realize that our body system is not really the same in terms of how consumption of these foods occurs. It reaction in some people's body is the main factor of why most people are been advised not to consume things like this especially the vegetable oil. Despite it showing the negative side of it consumption, we humans still really can't do without using these oils because it is part of what is needed in cooking mostly.

In hospitals even doctors advices their patients to reduce the consumption of these oil or better still look for a better oil that can suite the body system. There are still good vegetable oil out there but it have come to my understanding that the most suitable ones are expensive which now occurs to me that the bad ones are really the ones causing health issues.

I have gone to the market several times to get these oil and without been told you will see the differences of these oil where some even smell badly but because it is cheap the choices of buying would be personal choice.

The bad vegetable oil to me should be from the process of when it was extracted because not all of it follows the normal process which really needs to be looked into. Also the consumption of it should be reduced anyways because our health system matters which we really need to take caution to maintain a good living.

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minismallholding 2 days ago

In hospitals even doctors advices their patients to reduce the consumption of these oil or better still look for a better oil that can suite the body system.

That's good to know that doctors are becoming more aware of the health issues of overconsuming these oils.

you will see the differences of these oil where some even smell badly

The smell is often a good way to tell if an oil is getting too old when it's cold pressed. The refined oils don't give off smells or tastes, however, so we can't tell when they have started to go bad. This was another concern that was raised.

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honeydue 2 days ago

Admittedly olive oil is a mono-unsaturated fat rather than polyunsaturated, which means that it's a bit more stable and less prone to peroxidation.

I've noticed the pople who talk about seed oils being bad make this distinction almost always. Like most seem to agree olive oil is healthier by a lot. Personally, I don't know, although I have cut down almost all the seed oil in my diet for a few months now. I can't say I've seen a change, but then again I don't expect to. I expect it's more of an impact in the long term.

So mostly I have olive oil and use animal products like fat or butter instead of oil where possible. Is it good? I dunno. But it seems veridic, especially considering how cheap seed oils are, so. Worth a try. :) This was brilliant! Thank you for the food for thought!!

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minismallholding 2 days ago

I've only recently learnt that olive oil and avocado oil are actually fruit oils rather than seed oils. This could account for the different type of fat. Somebody also classed coconut oil as a fruit oil, although wouldn't that be more classed as a nut?

It's probably tough to know whether changing from the highly refined oils makes a difference. Usually when someone is having chronic health problems they make a complete switch from standard junk food diets to a wholefood diet, so multiple factors end up changing and they notice improvements quite quickly. I suspect that unless you're particularly sensitive to certain oils even adding them back in to see if you notice a change might take a while for it to build up.

I haven't used refined oils myself for a long time. Olive oil for cold and low temperatures and coconut oil for higher temperatures are my go to. I always hated trying to clean things after cooking with the refined oils because they end up like glue. I was a little concerned about the saturated fat with coconut oil, but my doctor was happy with my blood tests. His conclusion was that my cholesterol was a bit elevated, but it was mostly good cholesterol.

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temple93 2 days ago

Seed oil is good but the harmful aspect of it depends on the usage.
Seed oil is good and useful to some of our favorite dishes.
The bad effect aspect of it is, when you use more than quantity your supposed to give.

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minismallholding 2 days ago

The devil certainly does seem to be in the dosage and is very hard to escape it when it's in so many ready made foods. It can be hard to tell just how much we're actually consuming. In many first world countries it's a lot, because it's the cheapest oil and it has no flavour. We consume it when eating out and in many convenience foods and snacks.

Is it commonly used in Nigeria or do you use palm oils more there?

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emeka4 2 days ago (edited)

I am glad to see you post again after been away for a while. seed oil have both it positive and negative side of it which depends on human consumption but however the extraction of it in different process is really where it harmful part begins from especially in the aspect of where people wants to make financial gain from in a quick process.

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minismallholding 2 days ago

Thank you. This one took quite a while to research and I like to be able to back this up with a bit of evidence before I post.

Yes, sadly a lot of bad practices in the food industry come from companies wanting to make a quick financial gain.

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stayoutoftherz 2 days ago

The only sure thing is that at least the "food for thought" is healthy.
I am rather in the camp of those who think seed oils are bad, especially canola oil!

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minismallholding 2 days ago

"Keep it simple" seems to be a good policy, in my opinion. There so much conflicting information and opinion, but really everyone metabolises nutrients differently and some will have more issues with certain foods than others. Therefore we need to make our own choices as to what works best for us.

I recently found out that canola oil is higher in Omega-3 than most of the other seed oils and wondered if that was why some recommend it above the others as being healthier on the grounds of it being the anti-inflammatory Omega oil. It's still an unstable fat, though, and just as prone to peroxidation in the treatment and storage process. I feel like it was also the first one of these oils to come under scrutiny. I'm not sure if it was because it was considered any worse than the others or because it was so highly promoted as being healthy. These days I would class it as the same as the others, but I'm fascinated to know if you have other reason why you would classed it as worse.

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stayoutoftherz 2 days ago

I once wrote a post about it (in German) https://peakd.com/hive-121566/@stayoutoftherz/ist-rapsol-giftig
Reason is it´s content of erucic acid which damages the heart muscle. In the past canola oil was therefore only used for industry use (lamp oil, etc), and only since breading variants of low acid content its success in food industry started. Nowadays up to 2% erucic acid is allowed in canola oil. FDA says it is safe, but it is quite concerning in how many products canola oil is, even in oat milk.

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minismallholding yesterday (edited)

Yet they say that the processing completely clears that out. 🤔

And thank you for the link.

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goldenoakfarm yesterday

Yes, I've come across much of this information. I mostly avoid the seed oils, just use virgin olive oil occasionally.

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minismallholding yesterday

It's hard to avoid if you eat out, unfortunately. I guess limiting the amount you're consuming is the best you can do.

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goshen 2 days ago

The fact that those seeds oil that we usually use can be healthy buy well I still believe if it is over used, it can actually have a side effects to our body system. For me personally I am not for and against the use of seed oils, I just believe we should use it moderately

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minismallholding 2 days ago

Everything in moderating is usually a good approach. You can even have too much of a good thing.

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geyler13 2 days ago

🍃

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reveurgam 2 days ago

Ah, Paul Mason. He should have his license revoked, along with Berry, Diamond, Gundry, Fung, and several others.

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minismallholding 2 days ago

I haven't heard of the others, except Gundry. He's kind of funny. When I hear him present I feel like he'd just have us living of olive oil. 🤣 That said, while I don't fully agree with either his or Mason's opinions, they raise some good points too. Everyone will always draw different conclusions from and data and in science we need that to look at things from varying angles. New hypotheses are how we move forward to investigate and learn from proving or disproving them. If we didn't have that then everyone would just agree on what we currently believe to be the right information and we would no longer progress and learn more. So unless there is intent to harm from them, then I feel it would be a bit extreme to revoke licences from those we don't fully agree with.

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reveurgam 21 hours ago

While I agree with your premise as it follows scientific principles, the problem is that, in the case of Gundry, he's applying a narrow scope of medicine to everyone based on his own patients, which makes it anecdotal because you cannot apply a narrow scope of results to everyone. He also says things that are just plain dumb. Most of the ads I see with him in it are a mix of that narrow scope, facts and a dash of BS because he LOVES attention. That's why he wears colorful glasses frames (see Elton John and Liberace for more flamboyant examples).

In the case of the others, they mix truth and lies to get rich. Andrew Hubermann, for example, used to promote the truth but wasn't making much money. Now, he's lying frequently and making big money. That's what most of them do - they tell people what feeds their hopes and fears, a common tactic of con artists, mixing the truth and lies together so that people become dependent on them. A lot of people fall victim and give these scumbags their money and trust when all they deserve is prison.

It's not a matter of differences in biology; the core of what they're doing is conning people.

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